Windy City Generalizations and a Faux-Rivalry

Each year the Chicago Cubs and Chicago White Sox play six times. Six. Out of 162 total games. Those games aren't any more relevant than six games between the Twins and Cubs or Brewers and White Sox. Of course, there are millions of misguided fans who believe there's a rivalry between the two teams, a notion that is only perpetuated when our President talks about how the White Sox play "real baseball." FanHouse's resident Cubs fan (Matt Snyder) and resident White Sox fan (Tom Fornelli) got together to discuss the aura surrounding what shouldn't be a rivalry.

Matt Snyder: Tuesday night the Cubs and White Sox play what many in the Chicago media refer to as the "Crosstown Rivalry." Amazingly, since interleague play began, the series is tied 33-33. Each team has gone 19-14 at home, and Sox have outscored Cubs by a single run, 323-322. This year doesn't seem to be any different, in terms of how closely contested the six games should be.

Let's not worry about the on-field product for now. Much is said about each fan base by the other side. I'd like to ask you, Mr. Fornelli, what you think about the commonly-held perception that White Sox fans are Cubs-obsessed -- caring more about the woes of the North Siders than any team who actually impacts their own success. Conversely, it's very widely known that Cubs fans generally hate the Cardinals and don't care about the White Sox, right?

Tom Fornelli: You know, a lot of Sox fans I know are Cubs-obsessed. That's the funny thing about stereotypes, they aren't a rule, but there is a lot of truth to them. That being said, things are starting to change a little bit.

Before 2005 came around and the White Sox finally brought a World Series to the Windy City, an event that forced the Cubs to start trying to win a championship a bit more seriously, the outlook on baseball in Chicago was different. All baseball fans had in this city was the rivalry between the two teams.

Neither of them ever won anything, so the only thing worth caring about was how they compared to each other.

Now things have changed. In years past, the six games played between the Sox and Cubs would make or break an entire season for the Chicago sports fan. At the end of the day when both teams missed the playoffs you could still turn to your friend and say: "Well at least we took four outta six from the White Sox/Cubs."

The series had importance, now it's not that big of a deal. I mean, just look at the scheduling of it.

This series is starting on a Tuesday. A Tuesday. Are the Mets and Yankees playing on a Tuesday this season? The Angels and Dodgers?

No, these days it's more about winning, and neither team is doing a whole lot of that lately.

Talk to a Cubs fan and they're going to complain about Milton Bradley, Kosuke Fukudome, the trade of Mark DeRosa, "DP" DLee (Snyder's note: We actually prefer "6-4-3 Lee"), and then complain some more about Milton Bradley.

Talk to a White Sox fan and he's going to complain about the lack of hitting, having to watch DeWayne Wise play, Josh Fields strike out and then laugh at something idiotic Ozzie Guillen said.

Then both fans will present a whole myriad of possible solutions to whatever is ailing the team they pull for.

Bringing up the other team doesn't happen that much, at least, not in the circles I run in.

Anyway, what do you think of the fact that a lot of Sox fans always go to the standard complaint that Cubs fans are just along for the ride and want to have a good time at Wrigley? You know, knowledge, passion or brainwaves need not apply.

Snyder: Well, my initial reaction to that is always anger. It's absurd on so many levels to generalize that the entire Cubs fanbase is void of people with knowledge and passion. There are millions of fans with generations of Cubbie love passing through their families. Mine is one of them.

Most generalizations aren't without some basis, however, as you said above. Every time I get worked into a fury and want to claim all Cubs fans are smart, I end up sitting in front of someone cussing about a guy hitting under .200 and screaming "who the hell is this guy?" (It was 2008 Rookie of the Year Geovany Soto, on May 1. I wanted to scream at the guy who said it, but it's not worth it). Or I'll end up having to fight through a group of five 21-year-old girls on the way to the to restroom -- only to hear an usher tell them to move and then hear one of the girls say, "OK, so, did we, like, get in trouble, or something?" Ladies, this isn't a nightclub. Then you have the murdering of goats, destroying of the Bartman ball, blaming Bartman instead of Alex Gonzalez, etc. -- there's plenty of stupidity to go around.

The thing is, most Cubs fans hate all that crap. The stereotype of "us" is bad. The majority of Cubs fans are just as knowledgeable as any other fan base. When you have gobs more fans than most other fan bases, of course, there are more idiots, but that doesn't mean the percentage of idiocy is higher. Here's an email I received from a friend of mine who is a Reds fan (sent after the Reds 4-3 extra innings victory over the Cubs on June 6):

Good Cubs fans need to find a way to mark dumbass Cubs fans. The game tonight was great for the atmosphere owed in great part to the Cubs fans. I would say 90 percent of the Cubs fans were classy and what I would consider "good" fans. The classless fans, such as the guy who started running his mouth after the Reds won, though, are so loud and obnoxious they drown out the good people. I think the Cubs and, more specifically, their fans, are getting a bad name due to this."

Now, if we use 90 percent as a complete guess for "good" fans at home games -- at Wrigley roughly 40,000 people attend every game. This figure would mean there are 36,000 good, knowledgeable fans and 4,000 there to have a party and mess around. I agree with that rough estimate, having attended many Cubs games in the past 30 years.

Speaking of Wrigley Field, Tom, do you think it's as much of a dump as Ozzie Guillen does? Furthermore, don't you think comments like he's been making this past week only fan the flames of this fake rivalry and further get the misguided Cubs and White Sox fans focused on some lame rivalry which shouldn't even exist?

Fornelli: Yes, when Ozzie Guillen says those kinds of things it certainly doesn't help matters, and though it does fan the flames of idiocy with this rivalry, it does serve its point. After all, if Ozzie didn't distract everybody in town by talking about his Wrigley-induced vomiting, the media might ask him questions about why his team has such trouble hitting.

If that happened, then he might have to go and needlessly fire his hitting coach.

As for my feelings about Wrigley, I'm not a huge fan of the place. I do go to my fair share of Cubs games at Wrigley, and I just don't find it to be as nice a place to watch a baseball game as U.S. Cellular Field. Sure, The Cell doesn't have the history and tradition of Wrigley, but considering all that history has consisted of nothing but losing, I don't have too much of a problem with that.

The place is tiny and they pack you in there like a bunch of sardines, if you're stuck underneath the upper deck you have no idea where fly balls are going, and don't get me started on the conditions in the men's room.

I don't go to a baseball game to stand shoulder to shoulder with other men and urinate into one big trough.

That being said, Wrigley does have some advantages over The Cell. These advantages are usually working on their tan, have no idea what's going on, and are one beer away from finding me to be the most charming man in the history of the world.

Have you ever ventured eight miles south to Bridgeport? I dare you to admit it's the better park.

Snyder: Yes, I've been there, and no, I don't especially like it. I won't go overboard like many Cubs fans would, but when I sit down the right field line, I'd generally like to be able to face home plate, not the center field scoreboard. Other than that, I don't have any huge complaints, but that's kind of a big deal, right? Not having to turn your entire body against the seat just to see the most important area of the field?

Anyway, I'll resist the rest of your bait, as it seems like typical White Sox banter to claim your park is better than our beloved shrine.

What are your predictions for the upcoming series? More importantly, can either team score more than 10 runs in the series? I'm betting no.

Fornelli: Well it's typical banter because it's true. I don't mean to say I don't like Wrigley, because I've never gone there and not had a good time.

As for this series, I think it's going to be drama free. There will be no Michael Barrett/A.J. Pierzynski incidents this week, though Carlos Zambrano is pitching tonight, so who knows?

The Cubs will take two of three with the Sox getting their lone win after Milton Bradley forgets how many outs there are and tosses the ball to some lucky fan in the bleachers and Scott Podsednik tags from third to score what turns out to be the game-winning run.

Afterwards Bradley will blame the fan.

Your predictions?

Snyder: I agree with drama-free in as far as the non-game stuff. There will likely be three close games and we might even see some ninth-inning dramatics from either or both teams.

I'll take Cubs getting two of three as well. Thursday, Randy Wells will allow a single earned run while the Cubs get shutout by Jose Contreras' carcas. Oh, and don't be shocked if Big Z goes yard. He feeds off passion, and there are plenty of White Sox fans who hate him. He knows it, and will be jacked.

---

So there you have it. Some might think it's odd that Fornelli and Snyder are friends, considering the White Sox vs. Cubs rivalry. The fact of the matter, though, is that there are millions of fans just like us. They would also like to remind you that White Sox fans should hate the Twins and Tigers, while Cubs fans should hate the Cardinals and Brewers. It's pretty lame to claim there is a rivalry when you play each other the same amount of times the Cubs play the Diamondbacks and White Sox take on the Orioles every season.

Finally, both groups of fans can always find a mutual talking point: Discuss football. Da Bearssss. Jay Cutler! Brett Favre sucks!